Monday, October 16, 2006
Committee to probe what Zaccardelli told ministers
But questions continue on the role of former Liberal government in the Arar affair
The Hill Times, October 16th, 2006
NEWS STORY
By Simon Doyle
Following Following new requests by the House Public Safety Committee to hear from RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli and former solicitor general Wayne Easter, Mr. Easter, a Liberal MP, says "there's always a certain amount of trust and there's always a certain amount of tension, conflict" between Cabinet ministers and their senior officials.
Mr. Easter (Malpeque, P.E.I.), solicitor general between 2002 and 2003 under prime minister Jean Chrétien, has come into focus after the RCMP Commissioner's testimony before the committee on Sept. 28, when he said he made efforts to fully brief Liberal government ministers on the RCMP's mistakes on the Maher Arar file–which former Liberal Cabinet ministers deny.
The House Public Safety and National Security Committee passed a motion on Oct. 3, calling a number of witnesses related to the Arar report, including Mr. Easter, officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Jim Judd, former CSIS Director Ward Elcock and CSIS deputy director of operations Jack Hooper, who are expected to answer questions on Justice Dennis O'Connor's 822-page report on the events relating to Maher Arar.
The O'Connor report, released last month and now the subject of study by the committee, cleared Mr. Arar of any terrorist links and said that false intelligence about Mr. Arar sent from the RCMP to U.S. authorities "very likely" led to his extraordinary rendition from New York to Syria in 2002.
In a much-anticipated appearance before the House Public Safety Committee on Sept. 28, Mr. Zaccardelli said that after Mr. Arar's deportation from New York to Syria he learned that the RCMP had sent incorrect information to American authorities, falsely calling Mr. Arar an "Islamic extremist," and that afterwards he attempted to correct the record.
"I learned that in that process they tried to correct what was labelled false or incorrect information with regard to Mr. Arar. That was the first time it came to my attention that there was a possibility or that we had mislabeled or mischaracterized Mr. Arar in our dealings with him in the investigation," Mr. Zaccardelli said.
He added that the RCMP "never misled Canadian authorities" and that "discussions did take place relative to that between officials in Canada. A number of discussions took place. My officials were involved in those discussions."
In an interview, Mr. Easter would not directly say Mr. Zaccardelli's statement was false, but told The Hill Times that he met often with Mr. Zaccardelli as solicitor general, and suggested that Mr. O'Connor's 822-page report is evidence that ministers were not properly briefed on the RCMP's mistakes.
"I had many briefings with Commissioner Zaccardelli. I have tremendous respect for him and the force, but we will see what the committee asks, and what did Commissioner Zaccardelli mean by those comments," Mr. Easter said. He also suggested that the relationship between senior officials and ministers is not always one of full trust, and that he did question Mr. Zaccardelli for further information.
"There's always a certain amount of trust and there's always a certain amount of tension, conflict. I know on this issue that questions were asked, so I guess one of the difficulties here, and why I refer to the O'Connor inquiry, is because that is where the best, well-documented information is," Mr. Easter said.
Mr. Easter noted that he first learned about the RCMP's mistakes through the O'Connor report, which corresponds with similar statements from former solicitor general Lawrence MacAulay (Cardigan, P.E.I.) and former Liberal Public Safety minister Anne McLellan. "Lawrence MacAulay, Anne McLellan and myself all have said that it was news to us that the RCMP screwed up. It's certainly news to me," Mr. Easter said.
A former CSIS agent, who asked not to be named, told The Hill Times that he would not at all be surprised if ministers were kept in the dark because RCMP, CSIS and PCO officials would not have wanted to divulge some secrets to ministers. He said ministers are often told as little as needed to get them through Question Period and media scrums.
"This is not a minister with a lot of clout, or power. He would have been the mouthpiece but he might not even have been kept completely in the loop. That is up to PCO," the source wrote in an email. "It's like a shell game. People keep pointing to the RCMP, to CSIS, Foreign Affairs, etc., but all along the pea is under PCO."
NDP MP Joe Comartin (Windsor-Tecumseh, Ont.), his party's justice and public safety critic, said he wants to hear from Mr. Easter at the committee to help clear up contradictions between the statements of Liberal ministers and Mr. Zaccardelli.
"We very much want to get an explanation of what information he had and when he had it around this misleading information," Mr. Comartin said of Mr. Easter.
Mr. Comartin, who previously said that if witnesses turn down the requests they could be legally subpoenaed, told The Hill Times that talking to Mr. Easter could lead to more questions for Mr. Zaccardelli when he returns before committee. For instance, Mr. Comartin said he may ask, "Do you have memos and documents where you made it clear to the political leadership that the initial information you had was false or misleading?"
Mr. Comartin said that such information should have been recorded in letters, reports, emails or other writing, and that he intends to question Foreign Affairs officials about their files. "And we'll be doing the same thing with the commissioner when he gets back on the stand," he said.
Mr. Comartin said Mr. Zaccardelli's testimony before the House Public Safety Committee will be part of the committee's preliminary study before the release of Justice O'Connor's second report expected to be released in November or early December.
Liberal MP Mark Holland (Ajax-Pickering, Ont.), also a member of the committee, said in an interview that the committee hopes to have Mr. Easter and Mr. Zaccardelli appear on the same day. Although both have been invited, no date has been scheduled.
"There was some testimony given by Mr. Zaccardelli that just didn't seem to match up exactly with what we've been hearing elsewhere, so we thought if we had them both on the same day we could clarify a few items," Mr. Holland said.
"Part of it is understanding what was communicated and what wasn't communicated to the federal government and why. It appears there was a lot of information withheld from the federal government about Maher Arar, that incomplete reports were presented, misleading information was given." He said he hopes to find out why that occurred "so systemically."
"There's a feeling that we've heard, from ministers, from the Prime Minister, from people working in the Prime Minister's Office, that information was not forthcoming, that it was very difficult to extract, and clearly that's deeply disturbing because obviously that inaccurate and incomplete picture led to a lot of individuals to label Mr. Arar as a terrorist," Mr. Holland said.
Former prime minister Paul Martin's (LaSalle-Émard, Que.) executive assistant, Jim Pimblett, told The Toronto Star this month that the RCMP did not tell Mr. Martin about its mistakes and that the prime minister called the inquiry into the Arar affair because he did not believe that he received sufficient answers on the Arar file from top officials.
Mr. Holland, who as an individual has taken the position that Mr. Zaccardelli should resign, said the Liberals are waiting to hear the full story and more testimony from the Commissioner before the party takes a position on his resignation. Mr. Holland said he intends to argue his position within the Liberal caucus.
Meanwhile, at a news conference on the Hill last week, Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty International Canada, said the Conservative government's promise to review the outstanding torture cases of Canadians Abdullah Almalki, Ahmad El Maati and Muayyed Nureddin "absolutely" needs to examine the role the former Liberal government and its ministerial offices.
"I think questions do arise at all levels and within a number of policing agencies and government departments," Mr. Neve said. "That may have been staff in the embassy in Damascus, including our ambassador at the time. It certainly would have been staff in ministers' offices back here, other foreign affairs officials within the consular affairs bureau and elsewhere and even individuals within the Privy Council Office."
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day (Okanagan-Coquihalla, B.C.) has promised to act on a suggestion in Justice O'Connor's report, calling on the government to conduct and independent review of the cases of Messrs. Almaki, El Maati, and Nureddin. However it is not yet clear what form that review process will take.
Mr. Neve, attended by Messrs. Almalki, El Maati and Nureddin, said, in addition to further questions surrounding Canada's intelligence agencies, there remain unanswered questions about the role of the former Liberal government in what he called "Canadian complicity" in their detainment, interrogation and torture by the Syrian Military Intelligence in Syria.
"Certainly the complicity question does extend to government and this review absolutely needs to grapple with that," Mr. Neve said. "Were they being apprised of some of the very disturbing information we now know is on the record about people being aware of the fact that, No. 1, allegations were starting to come out about torture in Syria, most notably Mr. El-Maati's early indication of that when he was interviewed in Egypt."
He added: "Was that passed on to government officials? If so what action did they or did they not take to respond to that and ensure that would guide and determine how the government was dealing with the other cases?"
Mr. Comartin said the Public Safety Committee will look more in-depth at the role of government officials and Parliamentarians in the affair after the release of Justice O'Connor's second report on how to better govern Canada's intelligence services.
Conservative MP Laurie Hawn (Edmonton Centre, Alta.), a member of the House Public Safety Committee, was not available for an interview, and Dave MacKenzie (Oxford, Ont.), Parliamentary secretary to Minister Day, did not respond to a request for comment.
sdoyle@hilltimes.com
The Hill Times
The Hill Times, October 16th, 2006
NEWS STORY
By Simon Doyle
Following Following new requests by the House Public Safety Committee to hear from RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli and former solicitor general Wayne Easter, Mr. Easter, a Liberal MP, says "there's always a certain amount of trust and there's always a certain amount of tension, conflict" between Cabinet ministers and their senior officials.
Mr. Easter (Malpeque, P.E.I.), solicitor general between 2002 and 2003 under prime minister Jean Chrétien, has come into focus after the RCMP Commissioner's testimony before the committee on Sept. 28, when he said he made efforts to fully brief Liberal government ministers on the RCMP's mistakes on the Maher Arar file–which former Liberal Cabinet ministers deny.
The House Public Safety and National Security Committee passed a motion on Oct. 3, calling a number of witnesses related to the Arar report, including Mr. Easter, officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Jim Judd, former CSIS Director Ward Elcock and CSIS deputy director of operations Jack Hooper, who are expected to answer questions on Justice Dennis O'Connor's 822-page report on the events relating to Maher Arar.
The O'Connor report, released last month and now the subject of study by the committee, cleared Mr. Arar of any terrorist links and said that false intelligence about Mr. Arar sent from the RCMP to U.S. authorities "very likely" led to his extraordinary rendition from New York to Syria in 2002.
In a much-anticipated appearance before the House Public Safety Committee on Sept. 28, Mr. Zaccardelli said that after Mr. Arar's deportation from New York to Syria he learned that the RCMP had sent incorrect information to American authorities, falsely calling Mr. Arar an "Islamic extremist," and that afterwards he attempted to correct the record.
"I learned that in that process they tried to correct what was labelled false or incorrect information with regard to Mr. Arar. That was the first time it came to my attention that there was a possibility or that we had mislabeled or mischaracterized Mr. Arar in our dealings with him in the investigation," Mr. Zaccardelli said.
He added that the RCMP "never misled Canadian authorities" and that "discussions did take place relative to that between officials in Canada. A number of discussions took place. My officials were involved in those discussions."
In an interview, Mr. Easter would not directly say Mr. Zaccardelli's statement was false, but told The Hill Times that he met often with Mr. Zaccardelli as solicitor general, and suggested that Mr. O'Connor's 822-page report is evidence that ministers were not properly briefed on the RCMP's mistakes.
"I had many briefings with Commissioner Zaccardelli. I have tremendous respect for him and the force, but we will see what the committee asks, and what did Commissioner Zaccardelli mean by those comments," Mr. Easter said. He also suggested that the relationship between senior officials and ministers is not always one of full trust, and that he did question Mr. Zaccardelli for further information.
"There's always a certain amount of trust and there's always a certain amount of tension, conflict. I know on this issue that questions were asked, so I guess one of the difficulties here, and why I refer to the O'Connor inquiry, is because that is where the best, well-documented information is," Mr. Easter said.
Mr. Easter noted that he first learned about the RCMP's mistakes through the O'Connor report, which corresponds with similar statements from former solicitor general Lawrence MacAulay (Cardigan, P.E.I.) and former Liberal Public Safety minister Anne McLellan. "Lawrence MacAulay, Anne McLellan and myself all have said that it was news to us that the RCMP screwed up. It's certainly news to me," Mr. Easter said.
A former CSIS agent, who asked not to be named, told The Hill Times that he would not at all be surprised if ministers were kept in the dark because RCMP, CSIS and PCO officials would not have wanted to divulge some secrets to ministers. He said ministers are often told as little as needed to get them through Question Period and media scrums.
"This is not a minister with a lot of clout, or power. He would have been the mouthpiece but he might not even have been kept completely in the loop. That is up to PCO," the source wrote in an email. "It's like a shell game. People keep pointing to the RCMP, to CSIS, Foreign Affairs, etc., but all along the pea is under PCO."
NDP MP Joe Comartin (Windsor-Tecumseh, Ont.), his party's justice and public safety critic, said he wants to hear from Mr. Easter at the committee to help clear up contradictions between the statements of Liberal ministers and Mr. Zaccardelli.
"We very much want to get an explanation of what information he had and when he had it around this misleading information," Mr. Comartin said of Mr. Easter.
Mr. Comartin, who previously said that if witnesses turn down the requests they could be legally subpoenaed, told The Hill Times that talking to Mr. Easter could lead to more questions for Mr. Zaccardelli when he returns before committee. For instance, Mr. Comartin said he may ask, "Do you have memos and documents where you made it clear to the political leadership that the initial information you had was false or misleading?"
Mr. Comartin said that such information should have been recorded in letters, reports, emails or other writing, and that he intends to question Foreign Affairs officials about their files. "And we'll be doing the same thing with the commissioner when he gets back on the stand," he said.
Mr. Comartin said Mr. Zaccardelli's testimony before the House Public Safety Committee will be part of the committee's preliminary study before the release of Justice O'Connor's second report expected to be released in November or early December.
Liberal MP Mark Holland (Ajax-Pickering, Ont.), also a member of the committee, said in an interview that the committee hopes to have Mr. Easter and Mr. Zaccardelli appear on the same day. Although both have been invited, no date has been scheduled.
"There was some testimony given by Mr. Zaccardelli that just didn't seem to match up exactly with what we've been hearing elsewhere, so we thought if we had them both on the same day we could clarify a few items," Mr. Holland said.
"Part of it is understanding what was communicated and what wasn't communicated to the federal government and why. It appears there was a lot of information withheld from the federal government about Maher Arar, that incomplete reports were presented, misleading information was given." He said he hopes to find out why that occurred "so systemically."
"There's a feeling that we've heard, from ministers, from the Prime Minister, from people working in the Prime Minister's Office, that information was not forthcoming, that it was very difficult to extract, and clearly that's deeply disturbing because obviously that inaccurate and incomplete picture led to a lot of individuals to label Mr. Arar as a terrorist," Mr. Holland said.
Former prime minister Paul Martin's (LaSalle-Émard, Que.) executive assistant, Jim Pimblett, told The Toronto Star this month that the RCMP did not tell Mr. Martin about its mistakes and that the prime minister called the inquiry into the Arar affair because he did not believe that he received sufficient answers on the Arar file from top officials.
Mr. Holland, who as an individual has taken the position that Mr. Zaccardelli should resign, said the Liberals are waiting to hear the full story and more testimony from the Commissioner before the party takes a position on his resignation. Mr. Holland said he intends to argue his position within the Liberal caucus.
Meanwhile, at a news conference on the Hill last week, Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty International Canada, said the Conservative government's promise to review the outstanding torture cases of Canadians Abdullah Almalki, Ahmad El Maati and Muayyed Nureddin "absolutely" needs to examine the role the former Liberal government and its ministerial offices.
"I think questions do arise at all levels and within a number of policing agencies and government departments," Mr. Neve said. "That may have been staff in the embassy in Damascus, including our ambassador at the time. It certainly would have been staff in ministers' offices back here, other foreign affairs officials within the consular affairs bureau and elsewhere and even individuals within the Privy Council Office."
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day (Okanagan-Coquihalla, B.C.) has promised to act on a suggestion in Justice O'Connor's report, calling on the government to conduct and independent review of the cases of Messrs. Almaki, El Maati, and Nureddin. However it is not yet clear what form that review process will take.
Mr. Neve, attended by Messrs. Almalki, El Maati and Nureddin, said, in addition to further questions surrounding Canada's intelligence agencies, there remain unanswered questions about the role of the former Liberal government in what he called "Canadian complicity" in their detainment, interrogation and torture by the Syrian Military Intelligence in Syria.
"Certainly the complicity question does extend to government and this review absolutely needs to grapple with that," Mr. Neve said. "Were they being apprised of some of the very disturbing information we now know is on the record about people being aware of the fact that, No. 1, allegations were starting to come out about torture in Syria, most notably Mr. El-Maati's early indication of that when he was interviewed in Egypt."
He added: "Was that passed on to government officials? If so what action did they or did they not take to respond to that and ensure that would guide and determine how the government was dealing with the other cases?"
Mr. Comartin said the Public Safety Committee will look more in-depth at the role of government officials and Parliamentarians in the affair after the release of Justice O'Connor's second report on how to better govern Canada's intelligence services.
Conservative MP Laurie Hawn (Edmonton Centre, Alta.), a member of the House Public Safety Committee, was not available for an interview, and Dave MacKenzie (Oxford, Ont.), Parliamentary secretary to Minister Day, did not respond to a request for comment.
sdoyle@hilltimes.com
The Hill Times
# posted by mike @ 5:23 AM 
